ReNamer: Making of new manual

krtek · 2009-08-29 19:12

narayan wrote:

Actually I have not written that page, so I will have to check out its logic first.

Ooops, I'm sorry, narayan. I assumed that was your text, but I haven't checked.

narayan · 2009-08-29 19:17

Regardless, do you agree to my comments, or have answer for them?
Then with our combined wisdom we can start editing that page.

Last edited by narayan (2009-08-29 19:17)

krtek · 2009-08-29 19:34

I've got no knowledge about that.
I guess we need to wait for the author.

drag the selection by the very first file, otherwise the order of parameters will be modified by Windows Explorer!
Well, when several items are selected in Explorer, we cannot choose which item to drag by.
The entire selection is a single block, and is not "touch-sensitive".

My tests shows that you're right, narayan. It seems to be possible to drag only by the last selected file, but for no other file.

narayan · 2009-08-30 03:41

Stefan/krtek/Andrew

ReNamer can do things which are not directly related to renaming.
The manual should help the user visualize how he can exploit these features, with some practical examples.

Let's take an example:

Feature: copy a list of full paths to clipboard.
Here, we should describe how to use that in practical situations; such as saving, passing files to some other application (such as a audio/video player), etc.

You guys are very strong in this. Can you help write a chapter on this subject?

Thanks!

Last edited by narayan (2009-08-30 03:45)

Andrew · 2009-08-30 11:40

narayan wrote:

Well, when several items are selected in Explorer, we cannot choose which item to drag by.
The entire selection is a single block, and is not "touch-sensitive".
Does it mean "keep the focus on the first item in the list"?

Narayan, you're slightly mistaken here. Actually, whoever wrote the original text was correct. It does matter which file you select when you drag a block of selected files, but not always, depending on the sort order in ReNamer.

Now first of all I'd like to say that I'm not sure whether this is a bug or not, but it is possible to not have any sort order at all in ReNamer. If you select a column such as "State" for example, and all the files are selected, then essentially there is no sort order in effect and files will be displayed in the same order you dropped them from Windows Explorer etc. Another way apparently to negate any existing sort order is to hide the column currently selected for sorting. For example, if the "Size" column is selected for sorting and I hide it, then again there is no sort order in effect.

So now we have 2 situations - one where there's a sort order in effect and one where there isn't. This is important because if there is a sort order in effect in ReNamer, then it doesn't matter which file you select when you drag a block of files from Windows Explorer etc.

Now if there isn't a sort order, that's when things get interesting. Let me take an example to show how it works. Suppose the following files are selected in Windows Explorer:

1.txt
2.txt
3.txt

Now if you select 1.txt and drag+drop the 3 files into ReNamer (remember, with no sort order in effect), you get this as expected:

1.txt
2.txt
3.txt

But if you select 2.txt and do the same, you get this:

2.txt
3.txt
1.txt

Similarly, if you select 3.txt and repeat, you get this:

3.txt
1.txt
2.txt

See the pattern? Windows always sends the file selected for dragging among a block of files (contiguous or not, doesn't matter) first, then it goes down the list and then wraps around to the top till it reaches the file above the selected file. You can clearly see the distinction by looking at the dotted rectangle as shown below:

krtek · 2009-08-30 12:56

Andrew wrote:

Now first of all I'd like to say that I'm not sure whether this is a bug or not, but it is possible to not have any sort order at all in ReNamer. If you select a column such as "State" for example, and all the files are selected, then essentially there is no sort order in effect and files will be displayed in the same order you dropped them from Windows Explorer etc. Another way apparently to negate any existing sort order is to hide the column currently selected for sorting. For example, if the "Size" column is selected for sorting and I hide it, then again there is no sort order in effect.

And there is third, a "normal" way to do this: "Cancel sorting" option from the column header context menu.

Andrew wrote:

See the pattern? Windows always sends the file selected for dragging among a block of files (contiguous or not, doesn't matter) first, then it goes down the list and then wraps around to the top till it reaches the file above the selected file.

I felt that it work that way, but I was unable to reproduce it yesterday. At least for the first file (I allways got the list started with the second or last file). Maybe some sorting was on. But then I should allways get same results. I'm confused.

The bright side is that today it worked as expected (as described by Andrew). So Denis' text is true as allways.

narayan · 2009-08-30 13:37

Andrew, the "dotted rectangle" you pointed out is called "focus", which I had mentioned in my post.

The focus can be changed to any file (even outside the selection) with certain keys (in x2, it is CTRL+Arrows).

That's what I had pointed out, that the original author may have meant "having the focus on the first file".

I confirmed by experimenting that both I and that author are right, but the interpretation is different.

You can make any selection (even non-contiguous files). Even if your focus is outside your selection, when you drag your selection, it automatically shifts to the file you are dragging.
That is why you need to pick the first file in the selection, to bring the focus there.

Then onwards things happen as you have described, but the original author didn't elaborate; probably thinking that it is not relevant to the topic.

******
BTW I had also pointed out that if ReNamer has an active sorting order, the dropped files will get re-arranged. Therefore the original order becomes irrelevant.

The original order is significant only when ReNamer has no active sorting order.

And that happens to be correct.

*********
To sum up, all selected files behave like the beads in a rosary: The file you pick becomes the first file to land in the target place, and all files in the selection follow it in a cyclic fashion.
1. All files from the focused (dragged) file till the end of list.
2. All files from the top till the dragged file.

Probably the user can even exploit this to their advantage!

Last edited by narayan (2009-08-30 13:50)

narayan · 2009-09-03 15:25

OK I have re-written the page. Proofread that please!

Denis, since you wrote the original 'sorting" and the "ordering files" pages, these questions go to you:

1. Where is the manual sorting option? The hyperlinked page does not have any description of it.
2. Now that sorting is expanded, and "preserving the order" topic is added to it, is it OK to delete the "ordering" page?

krtek · 2009-09-04 06:11

WIKI: ReNamer:Sorting files#Manual sorting

I would be far from naming this "sorting". This is for manual ordering files. Suggesting the user that he may sort files this way is a bit like saying that the first option to drive a car is by pushing it. And only then saying that one can also get inside and start the engine.

narayan · 2009-09-04 11:10

But the description does not even say that it is manual reordering, which would involve some drag-n-drop or move up/down operation.

So I left that part as it was. But it needs to be re-drafted in one way or the other.
we need clarification so that we can re-draft the page.

den4b Forum

#111 2009-08-29 19:12

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#112 2009-08-29 19:17

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#113 2009-08-29 19:34

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#114 2009-08-30 03:41

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#115 2009-08-30 11:40

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#116 2009-08-30 12:56

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#117 2009-08-30 13:37

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#118 2009-09-03 15:25

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#119 2009-09-04 06:11

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

#120 2009-09-04 11:10

Re: ReNamer: Making of new manual

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